Sen. Ryan Fazio (R – Greenwich) is one of a handful of Republican Senators who voted in favor of a broad housing bill. He joins Mike to discuss why he voted yes despite some reservations, and the changes he hopes to see to the state’s affordable housing law moving forward.
Sen. Ryan Fazio (R – Greenwich) is one of a handful of Republican Senators who voted in favor of a broad housing bill. He joins Mike to discuss why he voted yes despite some reservations, and the changes he hopes to see to the state’s affordable housing law moving forward.
Mike Hydeck: Ninety-two thousand. That's how many housing units are needed in Connecticut right now. And despite tremendous need, very little progress has been made in our state. The legislature is trying to come up with solutions, but so far, not a whole lot is going on. Senator Ryan Fazio joins me now. Good to see you once again, we appreciate your time. Of course, you're on the Planning and Development Committee. House Bill 5474 could make a difference. How do you feel about that bill? And what's holding things back?
Ryan Fazio: Well, I actually supported the bill, crossed party lines to vote for it because I thought it was a good compromise of the various considerations we need to have as state leaders on the housing issue. First, I think we need to respect the time honored traditions of home rule and local control of decision making. Because the government that governs closest to the people governs best. At the same time, we need policies and some state leadership, in order to improve the housing market in Connecticut, make housing more accessible and affordable across the state. I think that this, while there were some parts of the bill I disagreed with, represented the right sort of compromise of those different considerations that will improve state policy and local policy on housing issues. So that's why I support it.
Mike Hydeck: It's a sweeping bill. One of the things that it talks about is being able to retrofit nursing homes to try to turn them into housing. Should that kind of conversion move forward? Is that a creative solution that could work, in your mind?
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Ryan Fazio: Yeah, I think there are many cases where we're going to want to see specific assets that are commercial in nature retrofitted to become residential, apartments or condos, residences, generally speaking, because we're seeing a shifting demand in the real estate market from commercial use to residential use. So we're going to want to enable that sort of thing. But we also don't want one size fits all. That provision of the bill I had mixed feelings about because it might be a little too sweeping. But generally speaking, making it easier to switch commercial properties to residential properties is something we should be exploring.
Mike Hydeck: So that would deal with zoning. And that is always, you know, a tug of war between cities and towns in the state and you can't have a one size fits all zoning situation. But we've proven that we don't create a lot of affordable housing without somebody leaning on you to say, 'Look, we should really do this. How do you feel about trying to change the zoning so it's easier to flip a commercial property into residential?' Whether it's, like you see in Hartford, the Hilton, they put part hotel, part condos, that's a creative solution. Is that something that should be explored on a more wide basis?
Ryan Fazio: It should be explored. Again, I don't think imposing too much on municipalities is the right way to go. I think our state government does that a lot already. And oftentimes, it has unintended consequences. I think when you look at the 30-year-old state affordable housing law, 8-30g, it imposes in a significant way, and more so than other states, on local decision making. But I don't think over 30 years, it's really addressed our housing needs and increased the housing stock in the way we want to because it creates an adversarial relationship between the states and the municipalities. And I think we have to have a more agreeable situation between the states and municipalities. So I think there's ways to reform zoning, making it easier to convert to residential, making it easier to build accessory dwelling units or residential in mixed use zoned areas, while at the same time not having these kind of one size fits all state mandates on municipalities. That's the balance that I want to see happen even more in the years to come.
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Mike Hydeck: Does 8-30g need to be reconfigured or amended to have it be more effective?
Ryan Fazio: I think. So first of all, in order to get credit for affordable housing, you have to build such a narrow definition of affordable. At the same time, if you allow middle housing or lower middle housing to be built, you're actually penalized under 8-30g because you're supposed to get to ten percent. Your denominator grows but your numerator doesn't grow even though we all agree that building the workforce housing for our firefighters, our nurses, our teachers, is very important. So I think we should reform 8-30g, say no too big one size fits all state mandates while also liberalizing the zoning for middle housing, workforce housing, to make it easier to build that.
Mike Hydeck: Which is what we desperately need. We have to fill all these jobs at EB and some of the other, we have teachers and nurses and all the things that we still need to fill jobs. If they can't afford to live there or have to drive an hour to get to your job, it's not palatable. So there's got to be some sort of thing to figure out there. Incentives for towns to add affordable housing, keeping flexibility. How do you find a way to make it fit their need? Because what's needed in Darien is different than what's needed in Stratford. What's different than needed in West Hartford. What are your thoughts on that? How can you possibly craft something like that?
Ryan Fazio: Yeah, exactly. That's why you have to, I think, respect local decision making and local discretion, while having a broad state policy that I think incentivizes increasing the housing stock. That's also why I think one size fits all really heavy handed mandates like 8-30g, which I think are stricter, more heavy handed than what we see in other states. And also other proposals that have come through the legislature but not fully passed yet, like the Fair Share Plan. And other plans from activist groups. I think those will undermine the ability of different towns and cities to make decisions that are fit for themselves. And that's why I think policies that will add housing on the margins, workforce housing, accessory dwelling units, things that are doable, and will not really upset the applecart at the local level, are the best way to ensure we actually do move the ball forward on expanding the housing stock. Also addressing cost. There was another provision that changes building codes regarding stairwells and multi-family units that will reduce the cost to housing. We haven't talked about labor; we haven't talked about materials. The underlying costs. We haven't even talked about property taxes, right. And we have the second highest in the country. So there's a lot of underlying cost issues, way beyond zoning. Electricity costs. We haven't talked about those things. Those are also very important to renters, and homeowners and drive up costs.
Mike Hydeck: And landlords and everybody else too. We gotta leave it there. Senator Fazio, we appreciate your time.
